MjhX
Players
Posts: 146
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Post by MjhX on Dec 25, 2016 21:32:25 GMT -7
I would like to request the return of getting more XP and GP when a player joins a session designed around a higher level than their own. That way, it's easier to keep up with your level range if you miss sessions, and encourages rewarding risks.
My suggestion on the implementation: for every session where a player plays up by 1 level, they get an additional half-session of rewards, and their XP and GP rewards are likewise doubled when playing up by 2 levels. This may result in some idiosyncrasies as far as relative rewards per player, but it would also keep the reward improvements simple while still keeping to WBL.
Does anyone have their own suggestions on this topic?
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Zanos
Leadership Council
No
how did i get here i am not good with computer
Posts: 684
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Post by Zanos on Dec 26, 2016 13:46:36 GMT -7
We had this before and it resulted in characters with broken WBL that leveled ridiculously quickly. It's worth noting though that, for example, a level 7-9 session should be designed for characters at level 8. Then the PCs are +/-1, instead of being up to 2 levels below.
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Geckilian
Leadership Council
Empires Mierely require time.
Posts: 1,026
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Post by Geckilian on Dec 26, 2016 13:56:14 GMT -7
Since theexp and wealth ratio would be for the level x 1.5 or x 2 you end up with the same exp as the previous system, but the correct amount of wealth with it. Instead of effectively getting double exp and slightly above single gold, MjhX's proposal would result in double exp and double gold, so on par.
As an example, a level 7 playing in an apl 9 would get 8000 exp in the old system and 8000 exp with the system MjhX suggested. In the old system they'd get 2667gp, whereas with the double Cl reward it'd be 3166gp, the appropriate amount for the exp given. This means wbl would still be around the current single session to single CL reward we have, but would give incentive for playing up, taking risks etc. Of course if you die and don't pay for a res you lose the session reward anyway, so could just end up with nothing.
For what it's worth I'm not adverse to it, it's not that much math. The only issue would be when characters only need a single session to level, getting 1.5 or twice their current CL would throw it out again.
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Zanos
Leadership Council
No
how did i get here i am not good with computer
Posts: 684
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Post by Zanos on Dec 26, 2016 15:46:12 GMT -7
I honestly never really thought that playing up 2 levels should result in a doubling of advancement rate, our XP system just played out that way.
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Post by bioa10 on Dec 27, 2016 15:22:26 GMT -7
So what is considered as playing up btw? Is a level 7 in a level 7-9 session playing up to 9? Or only 6 and under would be playing up to 7? Something else?
Besides that question I see a small problem with this. It is actually a problem with the experience system we have in place and Haksanlulz pointed it out when we started standardizing rewards. Basically if you gain more experience than what is exactly needed to level then you are slightly behind in experience. Say you play in a double session but you only need a normal session to level up, you now have 1 session worth of rewards for the previous level instead of the new level. Because the new level gains more xp per session and takes more xp to level, your 1 session in the new level is like maybe 90% (percentage estimated) of the rewards they should have.
In order to fix this I think we should just remove xp completely and make the character's level scale with sessions played, and gold would be static and based on a formula rather than a specific amount of gold per session. I am working on a spreadsheet that does the math for the gold automatically but I am currently not home to finish it, but I will post the spreadsheet when I finish.
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Post by dragonus45 on Dec 27, 2016 17:48:38 GMT -7
I agree with the need for leveling to be session based, but I personally feel that we should keep gold as being session based while also removing the rule that says it has to be standardized, we should also clarify what counts as playing up in all this as well I would say that it would be a average party level issue or an issue of the sessions expected APL vs the parties APL. Then we could maintain the idea that playing up in sessions where you are below the average comes with rewards for the extra risk, and also allow things like a session where the CR is higher than average but has extra rewards or players going above and beyond in a session getting a bonus, or the old standard of allowing an item to be bought at cost, which would feel like a genuine reward now that crafting is gone.
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xemadus
Leadership Council
Sure
5000
Posts: 798
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Post by xemadus on Dec 28, 2016 14:15:03 GMT -7
I think the easiest way to deal with playing up and playing down would be to have GMs state what the level of their session is, and give each individual GM free reign to choose the level range (or specific player characters) they want to deal with. In addition, instead of basing gold or item rewards on player level, we should keep a WBL system, but as far as session rewards goes, it should be up to the GM to decide who gets what based on whatever criteria they deem fair. This will (hopefully) encourage more people to participate more actively in sessions, as the person who just sits back and occasionally rolls something, or hides in a corner during combat, will likely not get much. (Same with the person who spends the session tabbed out in another game, or half asleep at their computer, as I've seen both happen in the past.)
Now then, this will of course cause some extreme variance in WBL, and possibly some crocodile tears when someone feels like their token effort at participation went under rewarded, but we can deal with those fringe cases on a singular basis as I doubt they'll crop up too often. With monthly rebuilds resetting a person's wealth to a flat number, we'll only have to worry about the people who are ahead of wealth due to consistently being a great player, and if that's the only major problem we have to deal with from a new system, I say bring it on.
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Post by dragonus45 on Dec 28, 2016 14:20:38 GMT -7
While I agree with rewarding people who go the extra mile I don't like the idea punishing someone for having an off game or being in a session that doesn't fit their character or play-style.
As for playing up I feel that most GMs do something similar to what I do, which is already sort of know what they wan't to run before they are certain of the levels of who will be playing. I feel like an official system would be as simple as designing a session for a certain character level then giving rewards out at that level, with EXP being standardized based off session count. That said my only real goal when I voiced my concerns about WBL before was craft characers being hundreds of thousands over WBL and a stagnant player base punishing people who were forced to play up by giving them less gold relative to EXP. The former was solved by removing downtime root and stem and the latter is easily handled by session count for levels as opposed to EXP.
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Geckilian
Leadership Council
Empires Mierely require time.
Posts: 1,026
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Post by Geckilian on Dec 28, 2016 16:45:59 GMT -7
I'm not opposed to removing specific exp and having just sessions counted - it's essentially what happens now anyway with standardized rewards, just with more numbers at present.
I also don't mind people getting more reward for events in sessions, though it should be noted that any use of a rebuild would reset you to WBL, so if you're consistently rewarded higher and use a rebuild, you'll end up losing some.
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MjhX
Players
Posts: 146
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Post by MjhX on Dec 29, 2016 13:18:56 GMT -7
In any case, here were my goals for making my suggestion:
* Maintain the "WBL Is God" philosophy of Season 2, and keep the XP-earned-to-GP-earned ratio determined by the player's level alone. * Allow a lower-level character a plausible chance to keep up with their higher-level friends, particularly if they had to miss some sessions due to real world concerns. This would make it easier to stay in a campaign arc a PC was already invested in, and would slow the process of people being completely left in the dust once all currently run sessions are for PCs who are more than two levels higher than them.
To be honest, I would rather keep with the prioritization of WBL, although I would like to see more consumables as session rewards.
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