Post by Kayse on Feb 26, 2016 15:06:18 GMT -7
I was running a game where a kineticist had a following Defense Wild Talent, Searing Flesh.
They provoked an attack of opportunity in order to trigger it and the creature they were fighting 'missed'.
First, they attempted to retroactive give up their Dex bonus to AC. I allowed them to do that. The creature still didn't beat their flatfooted AC, so I declared it still a miss.
Then they attempted to argue that since the creature was blocked by armor bonus to AC, the creature must have touched their armor, therefore the creature should take the Searing Flesh but the player shouldn't have to take the effects of the creature's bite. I vetoed this reading at the table, but the player persisted arguing and since I didn't want to hold up the table for a rules argument, I let a 1d2 coin flip settle it for that fight.
Now that we're not in the middle of a combat/session, I wanted to get some more opinions on the matter to see where the general opinion is on the definition of "Hit".
Personally, I am of the opinion that Pathfinder mechanically considers something a Hit if an attack beats the target's AC number and potentially deals an effect. If you're a Magus channeling a Shocking Grasp through your sword and your attack result falls between the Touch AC and Normal AC, then too bad, you don't get either the weapon damage OR the shocking grasp. Conversely, if someone is attacking a Kineticist and beats the Touch AC but doesn't beat the Normal AC, they 'missed'. They don't deal damage but also don't take the Searing Flesh damage. Fluffwise, I can describe an attack that beats Touch AC but not Normal AC as a glancing blow or however I want, but it doesn't trigger any mechanical abilities which require a "Hit" (such as Spellstoring Armor or Searing Flesh or dozens of other abilities which work similarly).
Opinions?
Searing Flesh
Element(s) fire; Type defense (Su); Level —; Burn 0
Your body becomes painfully hot. Whenever a creature hits you with a natural attack or an unarmed strike, that creature takes 1 point of fire damage per 4 kineticist levels you possess (minimum 1 point of fire damage). A creature in a grapple with you takes double this amount of damage at the end of each of its turns.
Weapons that strike you also take this damage, though the damage is unlikely to penetrate the weapon's hardness. By accepting 1 point of burn, you can increase this damage by 1 point per 4 kineticist levels you possess until the next time your burn is removed. You can increase the damage in this way up to seven times.
Whenever you accept burn while using a fire wild talent, the surging flame causes your searing flesh to deal double its current amount of damage for 1 round (a creature in a grapple with you takes a total of four times as much damage as normal). You can dismiss or restore this effect as an immediate action.
Element(s) fire; Type defense (Su); Level —; Burn 0
Your body becomes painfully hot. Whenever a creature hits you with a natural attack or an unarmed strike, that creature takes 1 point of fire damage per 4 kineticist levels you possess (minimum 1 point of fire damage). A creature in a grapple with you takes double this amount of damage at the end of each of its turns.
Weapons that strike you also take this damage, though the damage is unlikely to penetrate the weapon's hardness. By accepting 1 point of burn, you can increase this damage by 1 point per 4 kineticist levels you possess until the next time your burn is removed. You can increase the damage in this way up to seven times.
Whenever you accept burn while using a fire wild talent, the surging flame causes your searing flesh to deal double its current amount of damage for 1 round (a creature in a grapple with you takes a total of four times as much damage as normal). You can dismiss or restore this effect as an immediate action.
They provoked an attack of opportunity in order to trigger it and the creature they were fighting 'missed'.
First, they attempted to retroactive give up their Dex bonus to AC. I allowed them to do that. The creature still didn't beat their flatfooted AC, so I declared it still a miss.
Then they attempted to argue that since the creature was blocked by armor bonus to AC, the creature must have touched their armor, therefore the creature should take the Searing Flesh but the player shouldn't have to take the effects of the creature's bite. I vetoed this reading at the table, but the player persisted arguing and since I didn't want to hold up the table for a rules argument, I let a 1d2 coin flip settle it for that fight.
Now that we're not in the middle of a combat/session, I wanted to get some more opinions on the matter to see where the general opinion is on the definition of "Hit".
Personally, I am of the opinion that Pathfinder mechanically considers something a Hit if an attack beats the target's AC number and potentially deals an effect. If you're a Magus channeling a Shocking Grasp through your sword and your attack result falls between the Touch AC and Normal AC, then too bad, you don't get either the weapon damage OR the shocking grasp. Conversely, if someone is attacking a Kineticist and beats the Touch AC but doesn't beat the Normal AC, they 'missed'. They don't deal damage but also don't take the Searing Flesh damage. Fluffwise, I can describe an attack that beats Touch AC but not Normal AC as a glancing blow or however I want, but it doesn't trigger any mechanical abilities which require a "Hit" (such as Spellstoring Armor or Searing Flesh or dozens of other abilities which work similarly).
Opinions?
