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Post by magicdude3000 on Nov 22, 2015 9:28:08 GMT -7
I have a question about the Nature Oracle's Nature's Whisper revelation. Been doing some research and, by RAW, the cha bonus to AC it provides is not restricted by max dex bonus. There are a bunch of sources debating this, and it hasn't been FAQ'd. I know people use it with heavy armor in PFS, and there are other abilities that function similarly that DO call out being reduced by max dex. I just wanted to get this out of the way before I put it on my sheet, since I don't want to have to rebuild.
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xemadus
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Post by xemadus on Nov 22, 2015 9:51:06 GMT -7
This is how I see that revelation working: When you take the ability, all instances of Dex in regards to AC and CMD are replaced with Cha. This means your dex limit for armor then becomes a Cha limit for armor.
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Post by magicdude3000 on Nov 22, 2015 9:56:36 GMT -7
The thing is that other revelations call out that max dex applies:
Lore: Sidestep Secret (Su): Your innate understanding of the universe has granted you preternatural reflexes and the uncanny ability to step out of danger at the very last second. Add your Charisma modifier (instead of your Dexterity modifier) to your Armor Class and all Reflex saving throws. Your armor’s maximum Dexterity bonus applies to your Charisma instead of your Dexterity
Lunar: Prophetic Armor (Ex): You are so in tune with your primal nature that your instincts often act to save you from danger that your civilized mind isn't even aware of. You may use your Charisma modifier (instead of your Dexterity modifier) as part of your Armor Class and all Reflex saving throws. Your armor's maximum Dexterity bonus applies to your Charisma, instead.
The wording on Nature's Whisper calls out that you lose the bonus when denied your dex to AC instead. My assumption is that this was intentional, since nature has the mount revelation, allowing you to build an armored charger.
Nature’s Whispers (Ex): You have become so attuned to the whispers of the natural world, from the croaking of frogs to the groaning of great boulders, that your surroundings constantly keep you preternaturally aware of danger. You may add your Charisma modifier, instead of your Dexterity modifier, to your Armor Class and CMD. Any condition that would cause you to lose your Dexterity modifier to your Armor Class instead causes you to lose your Charisma modifier to your Armor Class.
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xemadus
Leadership Council
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Post by xemadus on Nov 22, 2015 9:59:35 GMT -7
That is some really awkward wording. Based on that though then when you lose dex to ac you wouldn't lose cha to ac for lunar and lore. have you seen anything that says otherwise?
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Post by magicdude3000 on Nov 22, 2015 10:05:32 GMT -7
Note sure, there's definitely no FAQ for nature's whisper though
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xemadus
Leadership Council
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Post by xemadus on Nov 22, 2015 10:17:09 GMT -7
We'll have to look for FAQs on the other 2. If there is one that clarifies you do lose the CHA bonus when you lose dex to AC then we'll have to assume that the other side is true for nature's whisper.
Edit: Cursory digging shows that the other 2 bonuses would apply to CMD since dex bonuses are the same as dodge bonuses. Since the nature revelation specifically points out AC and CMD I suppose this means that it isn't quite the same bonus. For now I'll say hold off on using it, and when someone a bit more well versed on these gray areas show up they can provide more meaningful input.
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Post by magicdude3000 on Nov 22, 2015 10:21:01 GMT -7
damn, well back to the drawing board...
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