Proposed Rules Changes - Public Comment (February 2015)

Most of the recovery methods do cost actions of one kind or another and have some drawbacks if they fail, especially for the warlord. Plus in a game where the average combat isn't going to last more than 5-6 turns the ability to recover is mostly situational.

As for feats I'll point out that dex to damage here predates the ACG and slashing grace, was meant to give the Swashbuckler access to slashing weapons and had the dex to damage thrown on as an after thought. A dedicated dex to damage feat meant for more than just slashing weapons and only rapiers, also its nice to have multiple feat paths to the same thing since a lot of that stuff in paizo proper is locked behind terrible feat taxes.

A dip is a dip. Any dip will always make your build better at what you want your build to be doing. Any wizard that wasn't focusing on blasting wouldn't be taking the dip, as straight 20 wizard will always win out as far as versatility goes. Unless you are willing to come up with exact guidelines on the bonus to penalty ratio of dipping that is going to be allowed on DG, this shouldn't really be a discussion. Dipping classes to gain mutagens, natural attacks, sneak attacks ect are more powerful than this with even less of a penalty.

3rd Party stuff: I've never used it before, so that's another thing I'd have to learn when I GM, which is going to slow things down. Not the most comfortable with it. I do hear Psionics is pretty balanced though, which is nice. 

Crafting: Biased since my primary character crafts, but the 80% 90% isn't too bad. As long as crafting can still be done I'm happy; if I wanted to play Pathfinder with a bunch of strangers without the ability to craft I'd play Society. If all crafting was eliminated like it is in society, I'd leave.

Once this change takes place, we get to keep everything we've crafted so far, right? I'd be pretty unhappy if I lost everything I've been working for.

I'd prefer consumable items to remain at the 50% 75% because they are consumable. Especially scrolls.

Things to note which are affected by these changes: 

The two traits (Hedge Magician and Spark of Creation) just became incredibly valuable. Now that you only make 10% of the full price as profit, (E.G. 1000 gp >> costs 800 gp to craft, selling for 900 gp net 100 gp) either of these traits boosts it to
1000 gp >> 760 gp >> 900 gp >> 140 gp profit, which is 40% more compared to the previous 10%. Likewise, any archetype that reduces cost has also become more powerful.

This change pushes the False Focus feat + casting Continual Flame to make everburning torches for profit out of the "RAW but okay" zone all the way into the "RAW but unfair advantage zone". Previously with a cost reducing feature you could make money from crafting and selling to NPCs, which is now impossible. Accelerated crafting + valet sets a maximum daily profit to 400 gp, while FF+CF makes
(54.99 gp * 2nd level slots), the latter beating the former around level 5 then forever outpacing even the most min-maxed crafter. Both of these can be done in the same day, as well.

Suggested solution:
        Using spells to obtain wealth or items counts as using your downtime to craft.
        Items created with False Focus cannot be sold.
(I suggested this change ages ago but either the council didn't have time or they didn't think it was important enough to change)

No sharing spells: 
    If I recall correctly, the highest level of spell you can get from the Emporium to copy into your spellbook is 3rd. Which means you are stuck with the 4th level + spells you select onwards, and you only get 4 of each of those levels. While this would nerf wizards and help to bring them in line with the power of martials, honestly that's going to seriously suck. I'd rather have martials receive some static buff than get restricted like that.
               

>We gave unlimited attacks back at 11 because thats when normal martials get a third attack and when casters go nuclear. Does this sounds right?
Sounds fine to me

>Are there animal companions we missed that might break with these new rules?
Not familiar enough to know

>Should crafting just be eliminated instead of having its benefit reduced severely?
Absolutely not, many people were drawn here because unlike PS you can craft. I'd leave if that were changed, and it is very likely I'm not the only one that would. Especially considering how small the Emporium is.

>Is the weapon balm nerf for ammo too much?
Nope, balms being strictly superior to everything except durable (material) arrows was an

>Is making Daze a mind affecting condition enough? Or does it need outright banning? Consider the ban on metamagic reducing traits.
We haven't had anyone really abuse it yet. A Dazing Fireball is brutal. Dazing Snapdragon Fireworks? Even worse. Honestly it might be best to either ban Dazing or increase its level adjustment by 1.

>These changes do almost nothing to address the martial caster disparity. We are looking at the Dreamscarred Press material as a way to provide options that bridge this gap. Do you have ideas for changes that might address this issue? Particularly at the mid-high and high levels? As it stands now the only thing we can think of is to go through L6+ spells one by one and identify/fix crazy spells. If we need to do it we will but it seems like a lot of work.

Simply adding more options isn't really fixing the problem; core martials etc still can't compete. This is going to be long.
Lore wise, trained casters have to be more powerful. Other than weird character motivations, if a fighter is exactly as powerful as a wizard, why would you spend 60 years training to achieve that power when you can spend a few learning how to use a sword? If war broke out IRL right now, and suddenly Pathfinder abilities were real but there was no real power gap between martials and casters, there is no way in hell I'd choose wizard over fighter. Naturally, when it comes to maximizing fun in a game, this must be ignored to some extent.

Primary issue: Battlefield Control. It doesn't matter how hard or how often a martial can hit if the caster is flying around creating pits summoning walls of stone and dispelling the poor martial's only source of flight. If the mental abilities of casters increase as they level, so should the physical abilities of martials. Other than boring to hit/damage stuff, a level 20 fighter (who should almost have the power of a demigod) can't do much in the way of crazy physical feats unless he is built for it. Which makes Battlefield Control even more effective. So, to reduce this disparity, various physical buffs can be considered:
    * Base speed increases to close gaps faster and run around that wall of stone
    * Bonuses to physical saves. Mental even works with the lore, since everyone is so paranoid about magic they're going to be more        resistant, while those who open their minds to magic are more susceptible.
    * An ability to ignore difficult terrain/jump over things (Physical feats) a number of times/round a day to counter all those control        spells. Just skill ranks and physical score modifiers isn't enough. Maybe like Monk's Ki (Jesus Christ monks suck, they are going to        need buffs even after Pathfinder Unchained. I guarantee it.)
    * Jump attacks for the poor melee brutes.
Any attempt of mine to provide a concrete example of these is probably definitely not going to balanced, but I'll do it anyway (But don't respond saying "x is so unbalanced"):

Every even level in a martial class provides an inherent +5 feet to base speed.
Martial classes receive an additional bonus to fortitude and reflex saves equal to half their level (Alternatively a flat bonus that increases at key levels against spells and spell like abilities. Will saves could fit in via lore).
Martials gain a physical feat pool equal to the sum of their physical modifiers, which can be spent to use various physical feats:
    This is basically the Monk's Ki pool so Monk ki abilities would need to be buffed
    Free action:
        For x rounds gain a bonus on acrobatics checks to jump equal to your level, and you can jump twice as high.
        Ignore half your base speed of difficult terrain for 1 round.
    Move Action:
        Jump over a wall at most 5ft high / 4 levels as part of your move action (Costs 5 feet of movement).
        Move double you speed for 1 round / 4 levels.
    Full attack:
        Concentrate all your attacks into a single mighty strike as you jump to strike a flying enemy
        You may make a full attack while moving up to half your base speed at the same time
    Martial combos:
        Fastball Special. Enough said.

Next issue: Summons (A subset of battlefield control)
    Many spells summon things to beat the shit out of your enemies without even having to worry about healing it afterwords, often     dealing more damage or preventing more damage than the party's fighter. Either duration, quantity, or power needs to be nerfed.
    Potential solutions:
        All summons deal half damage.
        Remove the 1d4 summons of a lower level list option. If you are using them as meatshields anyway 1d4 is very strong.
        Halve summon duration.


Finally: Versatility

    Casters are exceptionally versatile. Martials... aren't really. The physical feats pool I mention earlier could resolve this, but I'm not seeing any way to bring martials up to the level of casters without giving them spells (which the feat pool almost is already). Not really sure how else to balance this part. Maybe free physical teamwork feats every 3 levels or something.

So yeah, there's my feedback. I could probably go on about class disparity for ages but it's not going to fit.

That would make things easier, but also make certain characters more difficult to play e.g. my wizard Raymond wants to live up to his family name and become the most successful and wealthiest merchant in all of Rook. With no way to get ahead of other PCs this isn't really going to happen (Of course with these changes the aspirations of my character are basically impossible now so once I rebuild it won't matter).

So the problem is power is money in a game like Pathfinder because it's not an economics simulator, it's a combat simulator with a role playing game tacked onto the back of it. Now if your crafting actually stopped your character from doing anything else while he was playing master merchant then that'd be one thing, you'd be able to inflate your gold without gaining experience which would balance out. The problem is your crafting is just bonus gold on top of your normal adventuring time. You can become a master merchant AND a master adventurer, you don't have to sacrifice you get both forms of power which is where the tipping point comes from. The current system is basically no give only take which is what's causing the discrepancy.

If your actual goal is to be the best merchant in Rook then the crafting system isn't where you'd do it, its the downtime system, that's what depicts your actual business enterprises, a merchant isn't going to be crafting items out of his bedroom one transaction at a time, they're going to be running a full store, hiring and managing people, managing stock, etc. All of these would stop a character from being an adventurer because building that sort of setup is more than a full time job. There's more than a little hyperbole in the statement "if this changes then character concept x is invalid" all the change would do would be to remove wealth abuse because no one is going to agree to play a character who's only function is to run a shop.

 just to remind you, that it is staed explicity that creting permanent wealth through magic is severly watched already. see at wiki notes about bloodmagic and etc

"loodmoney - Spell effects created with blood money last for a maximum of 1 hour per caster level, after which they disappear. No spell effect created with blood money can be sold.

Fabricate - Banned (we may do something cool with this later but for now we'd rather not invalidate mundane crafting)"

both of those changes were so people couldn't create unlimited wealth throught repeated use of a spell. (like mwk tranformation everything in sight and sell them)

summoning archons to have unlimited continual flame wands and etc, would, imo, fall under the same guiding principle

I just wanted to confirm what you mean by combined sources -- is this hard cap character specific, or player specific? Here is how I understand it, for example

Scenario 1 - Character Specific:
Mulog has 1 attack. Odorf has 3 attacks. They are currently level 6.

Mulog attacks one time, bringing total number of his attacks to 1. 
Odorf attacks three times, bringing his total number of attacks to 3.

Both Mulog and Odorf's attacks were legitimate, because they individually took no more than three swings:
    Mulog <=3

    Odorf <=3


Scenario 2 - Player Specific:
Mulog has 1 attack. Odorf has 3 attacks. They are currently level 6.

Mulog attacks one time, bringing the total number of his PLAYER's attacks to 1.
Odorf can only attack two times, because the PLAYER has a hard cap of 3 attacks:
    Mulog + Odorf <=3


I hope you mean character-specific, because having a hard cap on player-specific attacks could invalidate summoning monsters at early levels, and cause a lot of unnecessary tears (mostly my own).

Yeah you can't use those two traits together anyway, because they are both magic traits. The spell isn't being sold, Everburning Torches are specifically said to be made with the Continual Flame spell. Buy a torch, cast it on it then sell the torch is the premise. Any idea when these changes are taking place? I assume it will happen x weeks after we nail down what will be changed here