|
Post by bostich on Aug 16, 2015 13:59:35 GMT -7
This came up in tkul's session the other day. Can you take a Lyrakien Azata (CG) as Familiar as a NG character? Relevant Information: Improved Familiar (Ultimate Magic): General Rule: One step on each alignment axis. Lyrakien Azata (Bestiary 2): A chaotic good 7th-level spellcaster can gain a lyrakien as a familiar... Inevitable Arbiter (Bestiary 2): An arbiter inevitable can serve a spellcaster as a familiar. Such a spellcaster must be lawful neutral... This could be interpreted in 2 ways: A) Specific wording from the Azata trumps general wording of the Feat and the different wording for the Arbiter in the same book is an editor oversight. B) The wording on the Azata just means that it can be used as a familiar even if it is not listed under the improved familiar list in the core rulebook at the time of printing. For an Arbiter you MUST be lawful neutral. Then UM comes out and updates the Improved Familiar List. I found no FAQ on the topic, only a couple threads with people wondering. Personally i think the different wording between Azata and Arbiter in the same book is a hint that B) is intended, but i can also see merit in A). I wont use my familiar for now. If A) is the rule i am fine with choosing another familiar or another feat. I think a couple of other players might be affected as well. There are a couple familiars in Bestiary 2 with the Azata wording and a couple with the Arbiter wording. So this will affect a number of improved familiars.
|
|
tkul
Death Knight
Banned
Posts: 406
|
Post by tkul on Aug 16, 2015 15:12:42 GMT -7
Both sentences mean the same thing "A cat is a feline" is the same as "A cat must be a feline", there's no semantic difference. The general 1 step rule would apply to all of the familiars that do not have clauses for specific alignments, such as the beheaded or elementals, but the specific rule of the familiars would override the generic rule of the feat. Considering that the creatures in question are all strongly aligned it wouldn't make sense for their alignment requirement to be overridden.
|
|
|
Post by bostich on Aug 16, 2015 16:15:18 GMT -7
I think i haven't made myself clear. (Probably my English. Sorry) In your example you used "is" and "must". I agree they are pretty similar. But this discussion is about "can" (permissive) and "must" (restrictive). Here is my argument(timeline) in more detail: 1) Core Rule Book published: There is a list of creatures for Improved Familiar. Neither Lyrakien nor Arbiter are permitted. 2) Beastiary 2 published: You can get an Arbiter if you are exactly LN. You MUST be LN, even if you get him by another source (restrictive). You can get an Lyrakien if you are CG. (permissive) Result: you need to be CG for the Lyrakien 3) Ultimate Magic published with this list: Try to get an Arbiter as LG: Ultimate Magic allows (permissive). Beastiary 2 denies (restrictive) => result: NO Try to get a Lyrakien as NG: Ultimate Magic allows (permissive). Beastiary 2 neither allows or denies => result: YES TLDR: In English there should be quite a difference between "can" (permissive) and "must" (restrictive).
|
|
tkul
Death Knight
Banned
Posts: 406
|
Post by tkul on Aug 16, 2015 18:32:47 GMT -7
Not really in the way it's being used. For example, a paladin can use lay on hands, that doesn't mean everyone else can just because they can do it. Pathfinder requires something to specifically allow you to take the action, otherwise the default answer is no. With a clause of "X can do Y" means you need X to do Y, or you need another clause to get around it.
|
|
Zanos
Leadership Council
No
how did i get here i am not good with computer
Posts: 684
|
Post by Zanos on Aug 16, 2015 19:46:52 GMT -7
The general rule is that you must be within one step on each alignment axis to obtain said familiar.
Both familiars given as examples have more specific rulings. You must be CG for an Azata, and you must be LN for an arbiter.
|
|
|
Post by bostich on Aug 17, 2015 10:16:32 GMT -7
Ok it is decided then.
I will either shift Kaitos' alignment or choose a different improved familiar. I will not use the familiar until then.
|
|