Post by Ashiel on Jul 10, 2015 1:19:25 GMT -7
A player here asked me to comment on a rules error on the wiki in hopes of getting it fixed. The Salve of the Risen Dead is broken.
For everyone's convenience, here is a quote from the Wiki page.
In addition to the writeup being sloppily done (nothing concerning the actual makeup of the magic item itself), the item breaks the rules for how magic items and their creation work and creates a noticeable game imbalance. The material component cost of a raise dead spell is actually more expensive than this magic item is (5,000 gp vs 3,500 gp). When creating a magic item that provides a use or uses of a spell with a costly material component, the component is added in for each charge (or simply added for single use items, or factored as per 100 charges for unlimited items). The market price required of an item like this is 6,800 gp (use-activated, single charge, material component, CL 9th). Even applying an ad-hoc adjustment to price (presumably for the longer but ultimately pointless increase in required time to "cast" it) should never reduce it to less than the cost of the material component for the spell (and the ad-hoc adjustment should in all honesty be applied to the use-activated cost as well, and frankly no more than a 10% discount or something).
I'd recommend something like this:
The above item follows the rules for magic items and spells and for the sake of keeping the item's apparent intent at being somehow discounted, a 10% ad-hoc adjustment was made due to the skill check prerequisite to use it in the same time constraints as the actual spell (which actually matters diddly since nobody is casting raise dead in the middle of combat anyway).
If the item is not revised, then the spell raise dead needs to be, removing the expensive material component or drastically reducing the value of the material component. A magic item should never cost less to purchase or create than actually casting the spell itself.
References and Citations
EDIT
Furthermore, the cost for NPC spellcasting for raise dead is 5,450 gp, which at 10gp * spell level * caster level + material cost should be the absolute cheapest that anyone should be able to get the spell in question without a healer doing it for free. If the intent is to make life cheap for the persistent world, then reducing the material cost of the spell itself should be a given, not weird hacks like this.
For everyone's convenience, here is a quote from the Wiki page.
Salve of the Risen Dead - This salve take 10 minutes to apply and an additional 10 minutes to take affect. Other than that, it functions as the raise dead spell. The base price for this wonderous item is 3,500gp with a caster level of 9. Requirements for crafting are the craft wonderous item feat and the raise dead spell.
In addition to the writeup being sloppily done (nothing concerning the actual makeup of the magic item itself), the item breaks the rules for how magic items and their creation work and creates a noticeable game imbalance. The material component cost of a raise dead spell is actually more expensive than this magic item is (5,000 gp vs 3,500 gp). When creating a magic item that provides a use or uses of a spell with a costly material component, the component is added in for each charge (or simply added for single use items, or factored as per 100 charges for unlimited items). The market price required of an item like this is 6,800 gp (use-activated, single charge, material component, CL 9th). Even applying an ad-hoc adjustment to price (presumably for the longer but ultimately pointless increase in required time to "cast" it) should never reduce it to less than the cost of the material component for the spell (and the ad-hoc adjustment should in all honesty be applied to the use-activated cost as well, and frankly no more than a 10% discount or something).
I'd recommend something like this:
Salve of the Risen Dead
Aura moderate conjuration; CL 9th
Slot none; Price 6,620 gp; Weight 1 lb.
==============================
This translucent oily salve seems to glow softly with a ghostly light. The salve can be applied to a corpse that has been dead for no more than nine days (one day per caster level of the salve) to bring the dead creature back to life as the spell raise dead. Using it on a corpse that has been dead for longer than the allowed period has no effect and wastes the salve. The salve takes 10 minutes to apply, or 1 minute if the user succeeds at a DC 20 Heal check when they begin the process.
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Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, raise dead; Cost 5,810 gp
Aura moderate conjuration; CL 9th
Slot none; Price 6,620 gp; Weight 1 lb.
==============================
This translucent oily salve seems to glow softly with a ghostly light. The salve can be applied to a corpse that has been dead for no more than nine days (one day per caster level of the salve) to bring the dead creature back to life as the spell raise dead. Using it on a corpse that has been dead for longer than the allowed period has no effect and wastes the salve. The salve takes 10 minutes to apply, or 1 minute if the user succeeds at a DC 20 Heal check when they begin the process.
==============================
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, raise dead; Cost 5,810 gp
The above item follows the rules for magic items and spells and for the sake of keeping the item's apparent intent at being somehow discounted, a 10% ad-hoc adjustment was made due to the skill check prerequisite to use it in the same time constraints as the actual spell (which actually matters diddly since nobody is casting raise dead in the middle of combat anyway).
If the item is not revised, then the spell raise dead needs to be, removing the expensive material component or drastically reducing the value of the material component. A magic item should never cost less to purchase or create than actually casting the spell itself.
References and Citations
Core Rulebook - Magic Items
Cost: This is the cost in gold pieces to create the item. Generally this cost is equal to half the price of an item, but additional material components might increase this number. The cost to create includes the costs derived from the base cost plus the costs of the components.
Cost: This is the cost in gold pieces to create the item. Generally this cost is equal to half the price of an item, but additional material components might increase this number. The cost to create includes the costs derived from the base cost plus the costs of the components.
Core Rulebook - Magic Item Creation
In addition, some items cast or replicate spells with costly material components. For these items, the market price equals the base price plus an extra price for the spell component costs. The cost to create these items is the magic supplies cost plus the costs for the components. Descriptions of these items include an entry that gives the total cost of creating the item.
In addition, some items cast or replicate spells with costly material components. For these items, the market price equals the base price plus an extra price for the spell component costs. The cost to create these items is the magic supplies cost plus the costs for the components. Descriptions of these items include an entry that gives the total cost of creating the item.
Core Rulebook - Raise Dead
Components V, S, M (diamond worth 5,000 gp), DF
Components V, S, M (diamond worth 5,000 gp), DF
EDIT
Furthermore, the cost for NPC spellcasting for raise dead is 5,450 gp, which at 10gp * spell level * caster level + material cost should be the absolute cheapest that anyone should be able to get the spell in question without a healer doing it for free. If the intent is to make life cheap for the persistent world, then reducing the material cost of the spell itself should be a given, not weird hacks like this.
